Wednesday, April 20, 2011
Open Letter to the Ontario Task Force on Dietetic Education and Practical Training
Dear Members of the Task Force,
According to your communication in November 2010, you indicated that a final report would be completed and shared by March 31, 2011. It is now April 20 - almost three weeks has passed without hearing anything from you regarding a proposed new model of education and training.
You also indicated that you would be seeking input, but to our knowledge no students have been consulted. We would be hard pressed to understand why students have not been consulted since we are central to the education process. If students have been consulted, please let us know. Have interns been consulted? They are also key figures in this process with immediate experience as to how the education and internship model might be enhanced.
It seems to be common knowledge among those that are privy to insider information, that students will be consulted by the Task Force. In iSAD email conversation, one of the program Dean's stated that "The task force has the interests of the students at heart and it will provide opportunities for student input." We don't know how that Dean arrived at that conclusion, but we hope it is true. Until we hear otherwise, we can only wait.
What we would propose however, instead of waiting, is for the Task Force to arrange a town hall type meeting organized at each of the four Ontario universities where students (and interns) could come together to hear about the work of the Task Force to date. We would suggest that such a town hall would be open only to students/interns in order for them to feel free to speak openly about their experiences and responses to information being shared by the Task Force.
So, we are looking for an indication from you, Task Force members, that our voice counts as you reconsider the education and training processes that impact our path to becoming dietitians.
On behalf of all Ontario food and nutrition/dietetics students as well as interns, we ask you for any information whatsoever of what your work has produced and we would be happy to provide feedback from our perspectives.
Sincerely,
iSAD
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28 comments:
I was wondering the same thing. Where is the report?
Curious Student
If you want to advocate professionally, write them letters. Use your name and address. It's a lot more credible than some anonymous blog. Make petitions instead of an online poll.
Please dont say "On behalf of all Ontario food and nutrition/dietetics students as well as interns". Not all students have the same views as you and want you to represent them.
Interesting idea you put forward about having a name and address ensuring credibility. How do you know that letters with signatures are not being sent. Perhaps those letters came during the "Consortium Days" to NO effect. Perhaps a new approach is necessary. Likely this blog will not accomplish any change. Why would it? Nothing has changed for a long long time, why should it now?
Signed,
A very cynical, but very real person
the quote is: "On behalf of all Ontario food and nutrition/dietetics students as well as interns, we ask you for any information whatsoever of what your work has produced and we would be happy to provide feedback from our perspectives."
If you are a dietetic student or intern, do you not want to know what the task force is going to propose? Do you not want to provide feedback on what has been proposed? Really?
The letter is signed "iSAD." Don't misrepresent.
I agree with the commenter above at 6:56 PM. As a current intern, while I can understand where some of the experiences on this blog are coming from, iSAD simply does not represent my views on all things internship-related. The quote "On behalf of all Ontario food and nutrition/dietetics students as well as interns, we ask you for any information whatsoever of what your work has produced and we would be happy to provide feedback from our perspectives." might be better rephrased - as it stands now, it reads as if iSAD were a membership organization and this post represents the views of its members. This is simply not true.
To the commenter at 7:08 PM, while I am certainly interested in the results of the Task Force report, writing an anonymous online blog post is not the way in which I would go about requesting such information. Yes, the letter is signed iSAD, but writing on behalf of all students and interns is a misrepresentation in itself.
I agree, this post is a little strong and perhaps not every intern or student can identify with everything that is on this blog. However, to the second person who commented on this blog, why didn't you sign your name under your comment?
Again the main point of this post is getting lost. As usual.
Please do not speak on my behalf in this letter. I do not share your thoughts or opinions. I find this entire blog disappointing and disheartening.
Nutrition Student
Remember it is a nutrition program students apply to for undergrad ... not a 'dietetics program'.
I agree with a previous poster who suggested that we should all refuse to apply next year. There is a dietitian shortage and until their is enough internship spots for all of us - we should boycott the system.
Imagine the panic if no-one applied next year. Internship directors and dietitians would fear for their jobs and it would unite all groups to work together.
Sadly - based on some comments I've read - I don't think all are going to be willing to be unselfish and stand together. I think those who complain that iSAD doesn't speak for them are likely
students with internships already.
If we work together we can demand changes to the system, fair wages during internship and more recognition for our skills and knowledge. Lets make next year the year of no dietetic interns and watch what happens! A short term loss for a very big big gain.
If the programs enrol students who wish to be dietitians, are the programs not dietetics programs?
But truly, is this not semantics?
If a program graduates people who can become dietitians, it is a dietetics program. What disservice are you doing to students who DO become dietitians to deny the fact during their undergraduate education?
There are so many negative responses on this blog that I am shocked.
Even if these students do not represent every nutrition student, even if what they are feeling relates to a group of students who apply to the internship, how can some of the readers, older colleagues, dietitians, perhaps profs respond with such lack of empathy? Don't these accounts count at all?
Also, why is this that some students don't apply for the internship? Is it that they really don't want it? Or is it that the process is so darn intimidating that some of them just give up?
Please open your eyes to student reality, even if the reality relates to a certain number of students.
Perhaps those in power to change the system think that students should not participate in change.
Could this be why the Task force is not responding to the blog?
Perhaps students are crossing the territory reserved for those in power to make changes? Perhaps, those who have been working on change do not want to share the authorship of change?
I'm thinking... if I was working on something for a long long time without tangible results and a group of students showed up with ideas it would take a lot of self confidence to allow these students to participate without feeling that my role in the process is undermined.
I call for courage.
ANOTHER Nutrition Student
We should graduate from our undergrad as RD's. I have heard from this year's interns that they are fully prepared and the internship year is a make-work project for them - a waist of time. They are working for nothing and while it is a good chance to orient yourself to a hospital - it is excessive.
How is it fair that an intern does the same work as a dietitian with no pay. This almost becomes a human rights issue.
I am an intern and have to say that I am gaining so many skills from my internship. I totally disagree with the comment above.
I find it astonishing that some students believe that they are ready to just start working after undergrad. Do you think that we are not work for our preceptors?
I look back at when I started in the fall and see how much I have learned over the past year. I would not have been ready to start after undergrad.
I am grateful for the knowledge I am gaining from my preceptors and the skills I continue to develop. My preceptors have coached and mentored me through some challenging assessments and also through some interesting professional and ethical situations that I would not have been prepared to deal with just right out of undergrad.
Sometimes we think we are ready to take on the world after undergrad but it is only after you start your internship that you realize how much you really do not know and how much you have to learn.
POV: Be positive and open minded to the value of learning.
For those that think they are fully prepared to be an RD without an internship, you know nothing about the real world. Some of you act like you know everything and you have nothing more to learn. Dietetics is a career full of life-long learning. Cockiness won't get you into an internship program. Why? Because internship is for learning and if you feel that you don't have anything to learn from it, then coordinators will choose a more mature person who deserves such a great opportunity. Some comments on this blog are so clearly immature and unprofessional. You can tell who is a young student with little life experience. Some individuals proposed cutting the internship time in half in order to open up more spaces for more interns. Well, why don't we just cut your university education in half? Interns are students, not employees.
I agree with the post above. Perhaps this is why some of you are not getting internships- why would a program take you- if you have nothing to learn.
I am guessing all this negativity comes from RD's who are recieving their nice fat paycheques and laughing while the interns do there work! Nothing changes! When will RD's become our supporter instead of challenging us?
I had stopped commenting on this blog because I was finding some comments about preceptors too negative but that last one takes the cake (so to speak). There isn't much that is "fat" about a dietitian's paycheck so the poster is misinformed. I have been a preceptor for many, many years and have always found my work (which has never been compensated in any way) related to teaching interns to be rewarding and intrinsically valuable, mainly because the interns appreciated the learning opportunities I developed for them. The most I could ever hope for was a project or two - perhaps the development of an educational tool - from an intern who was infinitely more computer savvy than me. There was never any circumstance where they did my work for me, and the suggestion is beyond insulting. Even during relief weeks preceptors need to check and co-sign all work, which mean essentially reviewing charts to the same depth that the intern has and checking the development of care plans.
I sympathize a great deal with the "cause" of this blog and agree things need to change, but bashing preceptors is absolutely the wrong route to take. Precepting in Ontario is a good will project and you should tread more lightly or you will damage the good will beyond repair.
The Jursiprudence Handbook actually states that interns are part of a dietitian's duties NOT some goodwill project.
While I think the comment about RD's accepting paycheques while we work is far too harsh there is definitely something to be learned from that attitude.
For so long it has been allowed, encouraged and supported for a pattern to emerge where interns are expected to learn outside of their internship hours. I worked with an RD who was complaining about how much homework her 8yr old has and I wanted to scream at her because I spend half my nights doing reading and work. But that is what's expected and that isn't right. I think if we were paid during the day then we would resent working at night much less.
No disrespect to interns out there is intended however as a preceptor interns do NOT do my work. They are more work for me.
With respect to the comment above that it is in the Jurisprudence (ie. not worded the way you have phrased it)Actually there is a statement in the code of ethics. And it does not state that RD's must take interns or that it is our duty to do so, rather that RD's are involved within teaching. That goes beyond 'interns' and we do teach physicians, nurses etc..
As well if you read the code of ethics there is a statement regarding being collegial to one another. So please reframe from making hurtful comments to one another as this is my concern. I would like to think that we can at least do this.
As a student I feel extremely embarrassed by the comments other students make. I, and I am sure many other students, have great willingness to learn and have been saving money to support myself during the internship period and I cannot wait to be able to put my learning into practice and learn from the dietitians who have been practicing in the field! Please stop the negative comments. I want preceptors out there to know that there are still many students who want internships so badly and will see it as a valuable learning experience instead of being a "free labor" like some of you have described.
Just a few years ago I was really excited to be in this field. Nutrition and food are two really interesting areas of study. I love the fact that food brings people together and that nutrition can be therapeutic. Among other things, this is why I chose to become a dietitian.
The whole internship applying process was a very negative experience in itself. But the negative comments towards students on this blog (and towards dietitians) are making me really think about what I'm getting myself into.
The profession of dietetics is creating a very hostile environment. It produces dietitians who resent teaching students and students who resent learning from such teachers.
My belief is that we are all good at heart, but the experiences we go through to become dietitians, all hardships, all sacrifices we need to make to get there, harden our hearts. We become machines trying just to make it to the end.
Can we break down the walls we put up up protect ourselves? Can we re-learn how to stretch out a hand to help the younger fleet of students who will lead the profession in the future? Can we show by example how to care in health care system not only for patients but also for one another?
I remember how we have gone around the circle in first year and answered a question: why are you in this program? Most of us said that we wanted to help people stay healthy, that we wanted to make a difference in the world.
So why are we hostile to one another?
Please be kind. We can create a much better community of dietitians by supporting one another. Attacks can only create wars.
I am starting my internship this fall, I really do not want to feel like I'm too much work for you. And if I am, then this system is really faulty. I have no other choice but to learn from you. It is not really my choice if I want to work in a clinical setting.
I am not quite sure if I am looking forward to my internship because of the comments I have read on this blog, but I am looking forward to becoming a dietitian.
Well said by the previous poster.
It has been a while since I looked on this blog. I am uncertain as to whether or not it will lead to any productive outcome. My sense is that it is just bringing out the worst in people.
I agree with the above comment that we are all good a heart, and do not intend to harm others. If we just remembered that and went about facilitating change in a positive manner then we would be better off. Rather than working together, the posts on the blog are creating more conflict by generating an "us" against "them" attitude.
I think we should also remember that people are posting about their own reality. Students who have not done an internship probably do not appreciate what an incredible opportunity it is for personal and professional growth (and therefore focus on demanding respect i.e. getting paid like RDs, etc.). And students would not understand what its like to be a busy dietitian who takes interns because they want to contribute to the growth of the profession.
Please, let's just demonstrate a little bit of compassion and be kind to each other.
The comments about kindness are important. Let's consider what brought us to this website - kindness doesn't factor into the internship process and it should. Reading early posts around discrimination and comments that interns are not accepted because of their lipstick colour is more than just unkind. It's illegal. Hopefully the task force is investigating this as well.
I would like to make a comment. I have not responded on anything on this blog until now. I feel compelled to respond as a preceptor and someone who has been part of a selection process. I have preceptored for over 10 years and I find it very disheartening to hear the bashing of preceptors and the false claims behind the selection process.
Can I relate to students? yes, Do I have empathy == Yes. However, I am going to share my thoughts with you on the latest post as I feel that I need to express the interests of all those dedicated preceptors and coordinators out there.
I find comments that relate to the latest post @4:36 pm on May 10th to be unfounded and extremely false. Such accusations towards the process are not going to help. Largely b/c they are not true and cause a lot of harm. It is interesting in an era where we suggest that we need to practice by evidence that folks are willing to make accusations on a blog.
I even question myself as I post this blog as to why I feel the need to share my thoughts. The rational is that I feel that the comments are unfounded and hurtful. Making accusations which is what I am reading in this blog is cause for professional misconduct and does not comply with the code of ethics. Why make up claims and accusations? What does this show about values and character?
Perhaps revisting ethics and professionalism is needed for the dietetic profession. Hopefully we can come to some future collaborative vision that does not result in all this hostility. Students slamming preceptors, coordinators and academics is not a good way to get there.
Thank you for expressing your POV. Let's be productive and stop hurting each other through this blog.
I support change too. And I'm happy to read the post from 7:01 May 10th calling for a need to revisit ethics and professionalism in the dietetics profession. It is so wonderful hearing an RD admit that there is a need for this. The system is broken and we all need to work from the ground up to fix it.
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