The following entry came to us via our iSAD Anonymous e-mail.
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I keep reading this blog hoping that someone will say something about the students like me who have been left out of this conversation so far. I guess it’s up to me. I have wanted to be a dietitian since I was 12 years old. My dad got sick and I got to see how a dietitian helped him get better. From that moment on I wanted to be a dietitian.
I did my homework and decided that my best chance was to go to an “integrated” program – I won’t say which one. So I applied and got in. What I didn’t know then was that being accepted in the program didn’t mean that I was on my way to make my dream come true. Once I was in the program, I had to apply AGAIN to become one of the chosen few who would actually have the chance to do an integrated internship and become a dietitian. I studied incredibly hard, volunteered for four different dietitians, and worked as a diet tech. Nobody wanted this more than me. It turned out that there were only a small number of internships available in the “integrated” program and that there were at least three times as many applicants as there were internships. But I had done everything I possibly could to show how much I wanted to be a dietitian and I knew it was the right path for me....... I didn’t get in. I couldn’t believe it. It was so wrong. I asked the university why I didn’t get in – they said that they didn't have enough internship positions for all of their “qualified” students. UNBELIEVABLE. I had to finish my degree taking classes with those lucky few students who got those precious internship spots. That was hell. After four years together, they went on to do their internships in their 5th year and the rest of us – and there were lots of us – graduated and were left to fend for ourselves. I still work as a diet tech. I still want to be a dietitian, but there is no way for me to do this. I think it's time someone told the truth about integrated internship programs on this blog.
I see job postings for dietitians all the time. I don’t think it matters which kind of program you graduate from, I think the question we should be asking is
“Why aren’t there enough internship positions?”
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We will post it the way it is written. We will use your title, or if there is no title we will use a sentence from your entry. The more stories we have the more complete a picture we can see. We invite all students from 1st to 4th year, master students, interns, RDs, and anyone else who would like to contribute, from Ontario and outside of Ontario to participate in our conversation. Your voice is needed.
We will post it the way it is written. We will use your title, or if there is no title we will use a sentence from your entry. The more stories we have the more complete a picture we can see. We invite all students from 1st to 4th year, master students, interns, RDs, and anyone else who would like to contribute, from Ontario and outside of Ontario to participate in our conversation. Your voice is needed.
20 comments:
So how many students did your program take compared to how many internship spots?
In an integrated internship do you no longer have the choice to compete for a regular non-integrated internship if you're unsuccessful in the the integrated route?
I hear you! That must be devastating. It is great to hear your side of the story.
In an integrated system do you apply only once? Also, can you apply for an integrated master's degree with internship incorporated?
Could it be possible that one of the reasons internship coordinators have such a hard time scheduling and coordinating interns is that there are TOO FEW practicing dietitians who will willingly and happily act as preceptors for said interns? There are over 3000 dietitians registered through CDO in Ontario. How could it not be possible to have double or triple the intern positions that we currently have? We need to address the current shortage of RDs and the impending drop through retirements.
Help me understand this?
Signed,
Confused & Bewildered
It may not be so much that there are too few RDs to take students, but that there are too few RDs willing to take students. Sometimes institutions don't allow it (for reasons of liability) and in other cases, the RDs workload is such that they can't accommodate the needs of a student. In most cases RDs are not replaced for vacation and/or sick time, so anything that impacts their workload can potentially increase waiting lists and their ability to meet patient care needs. Finally, there are just a lot of RDs who don't want to mentor students, period. All of these things contribute to the difficulties in securing placements.
Well, for those RDs that don't want to take students, they probably should NOT. Its better that way in some regards, but it sure doesn't create a culture or reciprocity in teaching and learning.
Does any other profession have an issue with poor compliance among potential preceptors?
Can preceptoring be mandated? by CDO?
Signed,
Still a little bewildered by this one...
About liability, interns need to purchase liability insurance from DC along with DC membership.
About reluctant RDs who do not want to take interns because of extra time and the fact that they are not covered during vacation. Well, how about interns spend a week of vacation relief after finishing a rotation. Would that get RDs interested? Interns will learn, RDs get a week off.
But interns need to get paid for that at least some amount, or at least get that OSAP during internship.
Is that really the "truth" about integrated programs? I highly doubt it.
I am so sorry you had that experience. Having to go through 2-3 years of school with people in the internship stream must have been very difficult. Albeit more much more difficult that the current model in Ontario. At least in Ontario, you only have to co-exist with your classmates for ~ 1 month after internship match occur.
Regarding the other comments about dietitians taking interns - I think the comment on April 14 at 9:13 sums it up perfectly. You cannot force a dietitian to take an intern. Even if someone was forced to take an intern, they are probably not the best teacher, or the best person to be learning from.
I'm not sure that we need double or triple the number of dietitians in Ontario, so why take double or triple the number of interns? My sense is that supply of RDs currently matches demand. Yes, there are jobs available, but most are not full-time.
I can see how it would certainly be difficult to go through 3 years with your peers knowing you want to be an RD, but can't.
In my opinion, however, I think its worst to go though the 4 years, then apply year after year after year, and still not be able to get an internship. At least you have only invested 1 vs 4 years of academic training thinking at the end of it you will indefinitely become an RD.
What upsets me the most is that I know SO many 1st, 2nd, 3rd year students who don't know about this. They still think that as long as they keep their grades up and continue with their volunteering that they will become dietitians. But for many, that wont be the case. For many, it wont matter how much they study or volunteer or work or research or make themselves miserable doing it all, they still may not get an opportunity to demonstrate their passion.
At least in an integrated, you are kind of made aware of the issue early.
When I was in 1st and 2nd year, the only reason I knew I was "supposed" to volunteer was because I started to hear stories from my friends in senior years. No professors officially told us anything, it was all through the grapevine, through horror stories. What would have happened if I didn't have these upper year friends?
I've been a dietitian for almost a year now.
During university not all the people my program were "exceptional" internship candidates. We all volunteered and tried our best to get good marks. But there were a group of students who I had a feeling would get internships, and a group I knew would not. In the end, my prediction of who would and would not get the internship was almost dead-on.
I think there is more to getting an internship than just marks or volunteer experiences. I believe that a persons communication skills, attitude, maturity, ethics, and values are all very important, if not more important. These are all evaluated and evident during the internship interview processes. Anyone can volunteer and study hard to get good marks. But it's a persons' personal characteristics and attributes that gets them in.
I work in a small community hospital and have always wanted to take interns.
After reading all of these posts - I am no longer interested. How sad, negative and entitled it all seems.
Oh, come on. How soon you forget what it is like to have very little control over your future career; a career that you were likely very passionate towards.
Why do people keep directing their frustration towards students? Students are just doing the best they can within the structures that have been put into place by universities, internship programs, and Dietitians of Canada.
And, if there are any other practicing dietitians who have "always wanted to take interns," please demonstrate some initiative and introduce yourself to any intern coordinator in Ontario. There is a list of them on the DC website. I have a feeling that coordinators are always looking for RDs to take students for rotations.
Practitioners - reach out, share your wisdom with the future of our profession. Please don't judge these students. Offer them your compassion and your support.
I think that what some of you are forgetting is that just because you "want" to be an RD does not mean that you can automatically become an RD. It is a very competitive process and I agree that some changes could take place to make the process more transparent and provide other options for those who don't get internships. As for grades- A+ and volunteer experience does not always make you the most ideal candidate. Just like when you apply for a job- it is as much about skill as it is about fit. Some of the best RD's I know were not straight A students but had other great qualities that have made them exceptional practitioners.
I don't think the point is that dietetic students are SO smart that they all get A +s. I don't think that dietetic students need to be straight A + students. I think that good grades however (in addition to crazy volunteer experiences) are an indication of students' dedication, their drive, their time management skills etc. Aren't these the types of attributes that make students "fit"?
I find it VERY hard to believe that anyone can judge whether or not someone will "fit" as a dietitian in a 10 minute interview.
And I have other questions, too:
Who has the right to determine that someone doesn't "fit" as a dietitian?
If someone doesn't "fit", isn't it only ethical that they know that before they commit 4 years to the field?
If someone doesn't "fit", are they supposed to change? Are we expecting people to change, or lie to themselves in order to get an internship? And if so, how long do they have to in live this uncomfortable identity?
Privileged? Oh boy Apr 16 at 8:02.
Look again.
I am a graduate who has applied 6 times for internship. I have been employed for 7 years in 8 different capacities, all nutrition related. If I didn't have the passion... if I didn't posess the skill... I would have done something else. My employers; 5 dietitians, Unilever, University Athletic Department, Chief of Paeds at a major hospital, and OHIP funded weight management clinic, seem to think so. I've put in the work. And then some. But enough about me.
1) transparency: I have seen this improve over the years. Certain directors ignore requests for feedback completely, with a form letter saying "too many qualified applicants". This year, I was able to have phone appointments with TWO directors. And I didn't even get an interview with them. Bravo to Hamilton and NODIP.
2) Placement of internships: The clinic I presently work at accepts interns. Although the irony of them learning from me does not escape me, I am excited that private practice is recognized. HOWEVER, private practices are unable to have their OWN internships, as our clinic was rejected when we applied to have one. WHY CAN'T WE WIDEN THE SCOPE of where internships are located? Why is Aramark the only one? (correct me if I'm wrong). Why not base them out of COMMUNITY CENTRES with Hospital rotations?
Just a thought,
x6
The dictionary defines "Fit" as: acceptable from a particular viewpoint (as of competence or morality)
Therefore, one would have to assume that if you did not get an internship that, from the selection panel's viewpoint, you did not fit the criteria that that program was looking for. That could be related to any number of things, although it seems that moral/ethical criteria and other factors such as maturity (as nicely mentioned in the post above) likely come into play.
And the "fit" is not only assessed during an interview, it also comes from the Reference letters(!) and personal letter.
Therefore, it's not all about volunteer experience or marks. Any employer has the right to hire anyone as they see fit, provided the correct processes have been followed (as dictated by Human Resources). Give the coordinators a break, they do the best they can. How else do you students propose they select applicants?
Even if the programs are integrated the candidates with the best "fit" will still go into an internship stream. Looks like there is no getting around it. Might as well accept it and move on.
I always knew I wanted to get into an integrated program and wow does this confirm it!
I do want to note that in my integrated program all students are guarenteed an internship. We enter into the program after 2-3 years of undergrad (still very competitive). It often still ends up people are applying 2-3 times to enter the program. They may end up completing most of their undergrad requirements prior to entering. Then if instances occur where students did not meet expectations or left the program (by choice) these 'advanced placement' students from the year below step up to fill the internship spot (none wasted!)
I'm currently a Nutrition major expected to graduate this May. There is a less than 50% chance I won't make it into a dietetic internship. I feel the Dietetic Internship Directors have failed their nation and dietetic community. With a Nation with an obesity epidemic, and the only "experts" in the feild (RDs) that can fix this obesity epidemic cannot even get into the feild because they are unable to get licenced because of unavailable and such FEW dietetic internships available in the country, makes it increasingly difficult for a dietetic student to become a RD. Legislation needs to be TOTALLY REWRITTEN for the dietetics community and nutrition experts and how we go about getting a license. I think there should be two classes Registered Dietitians and Registered Nutrition Specialist. RDs will ONLY specialize in Clinical Nutrition. And RNS will be able to be Food Service Managers, Dietetic Technicians, Community Health Educators, Nutritionist and more.
Hi, i'm still in grade12 but i will be applying to university next week. I came to canada form hong kong in the first place because i wanted to become a dietitian; i still do. however chemistry has never been my strongest subject and im still struggling to get above 85 in my current grade 12 chemistry class. my school is famous for its science and maths programs but the more i dig into this whole world of chemistry the more i feel like this is not my game.
I did a lot of research regarding the internship that i must apply to, i went to several information sessions regarding dietetic programs and none of them were that helpful.
so i was just wondering, would it be safer for me to just not go into dietetics? i do want to become a dietitian but from what ive read for these two years my chance of succeeding is almost nonexistent.
what do you guys suggest? should i put myself through hell? or should i just aim for another career path? please reply this, as i am applying next week!
or contact me at : jada.amethyst.1996@gmail.com
greatly appreciated.
@cakelicious17
Thats the root cause of the problem--too many ppl coming to Canada. Its becoming highly competitive everywhere we go: internships, universities, jobs. Thats the side effect of the immigrations and its just the beginning.
Re RDs that don't want to share their knowledge - they should not be called healthcare providers. How would you expect empathy and care about patient from an individualistic character
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